I'm being anachronistic in multiple ways (including punning) but I'm fascinated by the four-dimensional plot of revenge taking place for things yet to happen, bound by fated/fixed points in history (cue TARDIS sound) but seeking to maximize pain anyway... It's mostly the gods, I guess, but there's more agency than one would expect given how absolute is Jove's power over the future. (Odysseus gets it, though, if he really made landfall on his shield to avoid being the first man to step on Trojan land; just because something is fated it doesn't mean you don't have wiggle room. I can only imagine the shenanigans if Odysseus had been the one fated to found Rome.)
YES that's one of my favorite aspects of the aeneid (though there are many)! fate is something inescapable, but it's also something liquid and not rigid; it's aeneas's destiny to leave dido, for example, but it's up to him how to do it (and thus largely his responsibility that he royally beefs it). this is, i think, exactly why odysseus couldn't found rome (because rome is so focused on straightforward military conquest and honor/dignity, not lying liars who lie to escape fate), but also why it would be delightful to see him try.
& the 4D revenge plot is even more interesting when we consider that the gods could also be used as metonymy for the forces they control--eg, achilles in the first book of the iliad calming down because athena tells him to, but is that literally a visitation from athena, or is it his own common sense kicking in? how much of what juno does is actually godly meddling, and how much is it the force of tradition/the expected structures of the family and marriage that she has domain over? and does it even matter?
<i>achilles in the first book of the iliad calming down because athena tells him to, but is that literally a visitation from athena, or is it his own common sense kicking in? </i>
I feel I can't be the first person to make the joke that a supernatural explanation would be the parsimonious one in his particular case.
<i>and does it even matter?</i>
Come to think of it, we do say "The Market fears this" and "The Algorithm did that"...
"I feel I can't be the first person to make the joke that a supernatural explanation would be the parsimonious one in his particular case." LMFAOOOOO. and you'd be right!
I'm being anachronistic in multiple ways (including punning) but I'm fascinated by the four-dimensional plot of revenge taking place for things yet to happen, bound by fated/fixed points in history (cue TARDIS sound) but seeking to maximize pain anyway... It's mostly the gods, I guess, but there's more agency than one would expect given how absolute is Jove's power over the future. (Odysseus gets it, though, if he really made landfall on his shield to avoid being the first man to step on Trojan land; just because something is fated it doesn't mean you don't have wiggle room. I can only imagine the shenanigans if Odysseus had been the one fated to found Rome.)
YES that's one of my favorite aspects of the aeneid (though there are many)! fate is something inescapable, but it's also something liquid and not rigid; it's aeneas's destiny to leave dido, for example, but it's up to him how to do it (and thus largely his responsibility that he royally beefs it). this is, i think, exactly why odysseus couldn't found rome (because rome is so focused on straightforward military conquest and honor/dignity, not lying liars who lie to escape fate), but also why it would be delightful to see him try.
& the 4D revenge plot is even more interesting when we consider that the gods could also be used as metonymy for the forces they control--eg, achilles in the first book of the iliad calming down because athena tells him to, but is that literally a visitation from athena, or is it his own common sense kicking in? how much of what juno does is actually godly meddling, and how much is it the force of tradition/the expected structures of the family and marriage that she has domain over? and does it even matter?
<i>achilles in the first book of the iliad calming down because athena tells him to, but is that literally a visitation from athena, or is it his own common sense kicking in? </i>
I feel I can't be the first person to make the joke that a supernatural explanation would be the parsimonious one in his particular case.
<i>and does it even matter?</i>
Come to think of it, we do say "The Market fears this" and "The Algorithm did that"...
"I feel I can't be the first person to make the joke that a supernatural explanation would be the parsimonious one in his particular case." LMFAOOOOO. and you'd be right!