"Hic pietatis honos? Sic nos in sceptra reponis?" the tragedy hasn't even STARTED
"dirae ferro et compagibus artis
claudentur Belli portae; Furor impius intus,
saeva sedens super arma, et centum vinctus aenis
post tergum nodis, fremet horridus ore cruento." vergilius popped off with these lines they go so hard
"ne fati nescia Dido" :(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( i'm SO upset
savage instincts is one of those translations that makes sense but still makes you go Yikes
i'm having a lot of fun seeing how much of the latin i can still follow even though i haven't taken latin in ehh 3 years now, so this is a fun refreshing :)
Just wanted to say I'm loving this. My Latin is nil beyond the usual misremembered phrases, but even in translation it's an awfully interesting story.
And, yeah, that guy _is_ clinically, unbelievably depressed. I assume there's a dozen thesis already on "the Aeneid as a tale of trauma and recovery in the context of the Roman worldview" or something along those lines.
Thanks! I liked it very much, and the last bits definitely go in the direction I was thinking, although I think it also applies to more personal forms of loss; Troy can be as much an idea of yourself or your future as a city or a society.
oh, i certainly agree! i'm interested to hear your thoughts on the latter half of the poem (though we've got over a month to go before we get there); i think a great deal of it can be interpreted as stemming from the consequences of collective trojan trauma & aeneas's (what-we-would-call-today) PTSD
I'm very much looking forward to the later parts of the poem too. So far it's kind of... well, funny isn't the right word, but _interesting_ that everybody from Virgil and Jupiter down know (and Aeneas is supposed to know) he's fated to create the foundations of an "empire without end", but I don't get the feeling that he really believes it at an emotional level or finds it particularly comforting, which makes sense in his psychological state. I know how the mythical/geopolitical plot ends, what I'm curious about is how his inner plot will go.
And I just realized I wish Shakespeare had written an Aeneas-focused play. There's that Macbeth scene about the future kings, of course, and the other references, but Macbeth is a sort of anti-Aeneas, Hamlet in Carthage would have been hilarious enough that I'm tempted to write that fanfic, and I'd love a deeper Shakespearean take on him.
the inevitability of his fate vs. his personal state is probably my favorite thing about aeneas! i agree that i don't think he finds it comforting at all; i don't even think he fully understands the historical weight of what he's being asked/told/fated to do. i won't say anything further in case this 2,000-year-old poem has spoilers, but the latter half of this poem...
and yes! agreed! aeneas appears for about two seconds in Troilus & Cressida, but he's hardly complex. we do have marlowe's Dido, Queen of Carthage, but that sticks pretty close to aeneid book 4 (and, as the title suggests, it's much more dido-focused, although she deserves it). shakespeare, come back, i've got a commission request :(
"Hic pietatis honos? Sic nos in sceptra reponis?" the tragedy hasn't even STARTED
"dirae ferro et compagibus artis
claudentur Belli portae; Furor impius intus,
saeva sedens super arma, et centum vinctus aenis
post tergum nodis, fremet horridus ore cruento." vergilius popped off with these lines they go so hard
"ne fati nescia Dido" :(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( i'm SO upset
savage instincts is one of those translations that makes sense but still makes you go Yikes
i'm having a lot of fun seeing how much of the latin i can still follow even though i haven't taken latin in ehh 3 years now, so this is a fun refreshing :)
thinking about how here Dido is "fati nescia" but will call herself "non ignara mali" in a newsletter to come and making myself sad :(((((((((((((
Just wanted to say I'm loving this. My Latin is nil beyond the usual misremembered phrases, but even in translation it's an awfully interesting story.
And, yeah, that guy _is_ clinically, unbelievably depressed. I assume there's a dozen thesis already on "the Aeneid as a tale of trauma and recovery in the context of the Roman worldview" or something along those lines.
this article may be of interest! https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/10/15/is-the-aeneid-a-celebration-of-empire-or-a-critique
Thanks! I liked it very much, and the last bits definitely go in the direction I was thinking, although I think it also applies to more personal forms of loss; Troy can be as much an idea of yourself or your future as a city or a society.
oh, i certainly agree! i'm interested to hear your thoughts on the latter half of the poem (though we've got over a month to go before we get there); i think a great deal of it can be interpreted as stemming from the consequences of collective trojan trauma & aeneas's (what-we-would-call-today) PTSD
I'm very much looking forward to the later parts of the poem too. So far it's kind of... well, funny isn't the right word, but _interesting_ that everybody from Virgil and Jupiter down know (and Aeneas is supposed to know) he's fated to create the foundations of an "empire without end", but I don't get the feeling that he really believes it at an emotional level or finds it particularly comforting, which makes sense in his psychological state. I know how the mythical/geopolitical plot ends, what I'm curious about is how his inner plot will go.
And I just realized I wish Shakespeare had written an Aeneas-focused play. There's that Macbeth scene about the future kings, of course, and the other references, but Macbeth is a sort of anti-Aeneas, Hamlet in Carthage would have been hilarious enough that I'm tempted to write that fanfic, and I'd love a deeper Shakespearean take on him.
the inevitability of his fate vs. his personal state is probably my favorite thing about aeneas! i agree that i don't think he finds it comforting at all; i don't even think he fully understands the historical weight of what he's being asked/told/fated to do. i won't say anything further in case this 2,000-year-old poem has spoilers, but the latter half of this poem...
and yes! agreed! aeneas appears for about two seconds in Troilus & Cressida, but he's hardly complex. we do have marlowe's Dido, Queen of Carthage, but that sticks pretty close to aeneid book 4 (and, as the title suggests, it's much more dido-focused, although she deserves it). shakespeare, come back, i've got a commission request :(